Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:04 Our ancestors traveled through salt and stars and so do contemporary Pacific Islander communities. Today in this podcast, we consider how to build good relations with the communities we come from in Oceania, the communities we live with here in the Salt Lake City area, and especially the indigenous communities whose lands we live on
Speaker 2 00:00:25 As specific islander people who live in Utah. We are nourished by the lands of the Ute, go Shoshone and Paiute peoples. We are far from the ocean, but close to the saltwater of the Great Salt Lake. We are far from the night sky over our home islands, but can look up and see the same stars.
Speaker 1 00:00:45 Join us as we explore and build relations of salt and stars.
Speaker 3 00:00:59 Relations
Speaker 2 00:01:00 Of Salt and Stars is a new podcast produced by the Pacific Island Studies Program at the University of Utah, and hosted by faculty members Dr. Angela L. Robinson, who've Chuckies and myself, Dr. Miley Arvin. And I'm Kamal, our native Hawaiian with the name Relations of Salt and sars. We invoke the ties historically forged between the Pacific Islands and Utah, as well as the ones still in formation.
Speaker 2 00:01:35 In this episode of Relations of Salt and Stars, we talk with our friend and colleague, Dr. Helay, Julia Ka Hobart in advance of her visiting us at the University of Utah in March. We'll say more about her visit and how you can join us at the end of the episode, but save the date Friday, March 3rd from 10 to 12. We'll host Dr. Hobart to discuss her new book, cooling the Tropics, Angela and I, along with another colleague of ours from gender studies, Dr. Cerita Gaan. We'll be in discussion with Dr. Hobart about her book and lunch will be served after. So this event is part of the programming theme of anti-colonial ecologies that we have been exploring this year with our Pacific Island Studies program, continuing from our November, 2022 event, planting Good Relations, which featured a discussion with many local indigenous led community gardens here in the Salt Lake City area.
Speaker 2 00:02:38 If you miss that discussion, you can listen to some highlights in our last podcast episode. Watch the full video of the event on our YouTube page, or wait for our next podcast episode where we offer a part two to the highlights of the event. We wanted to release that part two of planting good relations episode in January, but we're running a bit behind and wanted to get this interview out to our listeners ahead of Dr. Hobart's visit. So let me tell you more about Dr. Hobart before we jump into our interview with her. Dr. Hobart, who is Kanaka Ma. Our Native Hawaiian is an assistant professor of Native and indigenous studies at Yale University in interdisciplinary scholar. She researches and teaches on issues of cellar, colonialism, environment, and indigenous sovereignty. Her first book, cooling the Tropics Ice Indigeneity and Haran Refreshment, uh, from Duke University Press 2022, is a recipient of the Press' Scholars of Color First Book Award.
Speaker 2 00:03:43 Her articles have appeared in referee journals such as N A I S, media and Environment, food Culture and Society, and the Journal of Transnational American Studies among others. She is the co-editor of the Special Issue, radical Care for Social Texts in 2020, and the editor of Foodways of Hawaii out of Rutledge in 2018. She is currently working on a project about cultural memory commemoration and hauntings in Hawaii State parks. Professor Hobart holds a PhD in food studies from New York University and MA and studies in the decorative arts design and culture from the Bard Graduate Center and an MLS in Wear books, librarianship in archives management from the Pratt Institute. She joins Yale from the University of Texas at Austin, where she was an assistant professor of anthropology.
Speaker 1 00:04:42 Okay, Helay, we're so excited to have you here with us. It's so wonderful. Yay. Yay. <laugh>. Thank you for making time and your busy schedule to be with us. Um, <laugh>, I guess, you know, one of the first things we wanna ask you about is how you came to this research topic, uh, specifically of thinking about ICE in Hawaii.
Speaker 4 00:05:10 Yeah. Um, I, so I have a PhD in food studies, as you know, and when I, um, started the program, I wasn't doing anything about indigeneity or Hawaii or ICE for that matter. And, you know, I we're, we all go on our journeys to find our projects. Um, but I was at the time dealing with a lot of like re recently complicated feelings about my relationship to home. And in order to like work through those feelings, I was like, okay, I need to deepen my understanding of Hawaii's political history and I need to do this for myself. Um, and I'm at a point in my life where I have the tools and I have the time and the space and I need to take advantage of that privilege. So I kind of hit pause on dissertation project that I was trying to form in my mind at that time.
Speaker 4 00:06:14 And I was like, that can wait. I need to take this summer. I need to just, you know, do this for myself and then I can turn back to the project that I promised this department I would do when I started there as a student. And by the end of that summer I was like, I need more time to think through these things. And so I took a course, uh, in indigenous studies as like a tiny gift to myself. And that tiny gift ended up being like the colonel for the book that I would eventually come to write. So there was something about this pivot that started to underscore how absolutely vital it is to write yourself into your project in a way that tethers you to it. And it, I think that sometimes, you know, within fields like ethnic studies, um, people can have this anxiety about like research and, um, just, you know, doing a bunch of navel gazing with your work.
Speaker 4 00:07:23 And I, I I, I feel like that's a little bit silly first of all. And, and second of all, I think that there are a lot of ways that we write ourselves into our project that don't, that don't make it overtly about ourselves, but um, bind us to our questions in ways that sustain the project over, you know, the 10 years or so that you struggle with it. So that's what kind of made me turn to the project and then came, you know, another three or four years of being absolutely terrified of it. Um, you know, what does it mean to ask these questions? What makes me think that I should have the platform to say anything at all? Um, you know, what forms of expertise could I possibly have that people that aren't physically in Hawaii have themselves? Um, when am I gonna get to a point in my life where I don't panic when somebody asks me, um, what my relationship is to my project? And that all took a lot of time. Um, and I was doing all of this while I was putting together, you know, this like weird little book about ice in Hawaii that for years people would be like, oh, that's <laugh>. Like, they'd be like, what's your project about? And I'd be like, oh, this. And they're like, Uhhuh, okay, I don't get it. Thanks <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:08:57 Um, and uh, so that's, I don't know if I answered your question, but that's how I got to the project or that's like how I came to see my relationship to the project.
Speaker 1 00:09:09 No, yeah, totally. I mean it re you know, what you're saying is kind of similar to one of the other things I was thinking when I read your acknowledgements, you know, from the very first thing you write is about is basically what you're saying. You say, you know, you never intended to write a book about Hawaii. And even now saying that may feels audacious to you. And yeah, there is something about that that really resonated for me as well with my own research, you know, in the Pacific, but also specifically around Micronesia. And I think, you know, we all, like a lot of us have those kinds of, and then it's just funny cuz there are other people who like will write these things and don't think that at all. Right? Like, <laugh> and
Speaker 4 00:09:51 I question that <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:09:53 I really
Speaker 4 00:09:53 Do, when people are like, well yeah, of course I'm gonna say this or that, or whatever about these things, right? And I'm like, how are you not like racked with anxiety about whether or not it's your Juliana to do it?
Speaker 1 00:10:06 Right. Exactly. Exactly. Right. So it's like, I think that kind of, yeah. So maybe we could say that kind of like anxiety or, you know, feeling of audaciousness or questioning whether or not you're the one to do something that's maybe part of being like an ethical academic or something.
Speaker 4 00:10:28 Yeah. I mean, at the very least, one should ask the question of themselves,
Speaker 1 00:10:32 <laugh>. Exactly. Should I be the one to do this? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think you were definitely the one to write this book. He so
Speaker 4 00:10:40 <laugh>. Well, thank you. You know, over the years I've been working on it, people are like, well I guess nobody else is gonna do that, so you might as well
Speaker 2 00:10:48 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:10:50 But I mean, it is such a fascinating topic, you know. Um, Milee, do you wanna jump in with one of your questions?
Speaker 2 00:10:57 Yeah, sure. So I think one question or comment that Ann and I both had was just, it seems totally insane to us that white people would ship blocks of ice from New England to Hawaii. So like, did they really want like ice drinks that much? Or like how in the world was that a profitable enterprise for like anyone involved? Like, just tell us more about it.
Speaker 1 00:11:27 <laugh>. Yeah. How did it not melt
Speaker 4 00:11:30 <laugh>? Right. I mean, I think that like, that what the fuck moment was like the first <laugh> the first thing in the project that I was like, oh, I like, I need to pay attention to these like, bazaro things and you know, I think it's gonna tell me something because it seems like such a strange, like a strange amount of like effort for a cold drink. And that was, yeah, I mean that was kind of the first thing I was like, I don't understand technologically how this is happening. Like, isn't it all melting? Like how on earth is this like worth it? Um, who's coming up with these insane ideas anyway? Right. This is before the Panama Canal was built, and so all of this ice from Maine and other places in New England are coming by ship, like all around, like all the way around the southern tip of South America and usually up to San Francisco first and then over to Hawaii. And then they're just like, you know, unloading these blocks of ice and don't have anywhere to put them, right? Like, there's no ice house in Honolulu, there's no, there's no insulation anywhere. So they're like, Ugh, does anyone wanna buy?
Speaker 4 00:12:55 Um, and so they just like, you know, hustle it down the street to the bar and plop it in drinks and this becomes like the epitome of like cosmopolitan whiteness. And that kind of like ephemeral form of refreshment contains a lot of power in it and a lot of ideas about racial hierarchy mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so once I made that connection, then I was like, oh, there's a really deep story to tell here about sensory pleasure and what it does to in the imperial imagination.
Speaker 2 00:13:35 Yeah. Wow. We're both naughty. Like, yeah, <laugh> <laugh>. It's such a crazy, crazy story. So we really love that you're able to, to tell us about it. Um, I think another question I had, um, to get into the content of your book is one of your chapters talks a lot about the regulation of food, um, in Hawaii, especially the regulations, um, around poy and ice cream. Um, and I it thought I just, I'm really fascinated with that history and the ways that you point out how those foods are through the regulations both racialized and classed in, in different ways. And, um, I just wanted to ask if you could tell us our listeners a bit about that history and, um, maybe any connections you see between the regulations of POI in particular, um, and kind of the decline in Poy being our staple food in Hawaii, um, as well as maybe any comments you have on, you know, how how, uh, kalo cultivation and poy production today has been, um, you know, a, a real like target of our cultural revitalization for, for Hawaiians. So yeah.
Speaker 4 00:15:02 Yeah. That, that is a, a far ranging question that I think is really important. Um, I mean, in some ways, like, I feel like the book contains these like moments of like batshit things that white people do, <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:15:17 <laugh>,
Speaker 4 00:15:21 Um, and the chapter that you're talking about, which is about the regulation of food in the territorial era, like really hinges around the activities of this one particular food inspector named Edward Blanchard. And I have tried, like I have pulled out every trick in the book to like find Blanchard in the world before or after he pops up in, you know, 1908 or whatever it is in a Honolulu to help implement these pure food and drug laws that are being, um, transferred from the United States over to Hawaii in this early territorial period. Because Blanchard shows up to this landscape of public health in Hawaii where there are all of these connections being made between food ways and the transmission of, um, diseases that are having, um, an outsized, uh, effect on native Hawaiian populations. And because of that effect of, um, you know, these series of public health crises, um, there emerges this intensive regulation of native Hawaiian foods.
Speaker 4 00:16:37 And Poy becomes part of that because there are all of these longstanding ideas about, um, POY and the way it's eaten, um, as a communal food. There's a lot of body shit that happens, um, in their, and um, Blanchard comes in and he's tasked with these regulatory practices to purportedly, you know, stop things like cholera from transmitting around the islands, but also, you know, he's more than happy to shut down the point industry in the service of that goal. And in the middle of this crisis, he gets this bee in his bonnet about ice cream of all things, and he decides that like Hawaii's ice cream doesn't have enough butter fat in it to be called legally ice cream according to us law. And that there's a crisis that he needs to attend to. So much so that he asks the board of health to find somebody else to deal with the cholera epidemic because he has to crack down on the ice cream menu manufacturers in Hawaii.
Speaker 4 00:17:50 And these poor ice cream manufacturers are like, look man, we just, we're just making the same thing we've always made <laugh>. And you know, the problem is that you change the goalpost, right? But he, you know, he comes up with all of these things, he's overly concerned about ice cream. And so funny enough, in this moment, ice cream and poise start being regulated together at the same time and create this actually really, um, this really interesting, uh, the, so sorry you'll have to edit, um, but ice cream and poi play off of each other in these really fascinating ways, right? Poi is being this like paradigmatic food of native Hawaiian culture and all of these other super racist and racialized ideas about native Hawaiian people. And then ice cream as like the paradigm of like whiteness and purity, right? And coldness. And so this hierarchy of taste emerges that can be mapped onto this moment where you start to see like the palette of colonialism in Hawaii pivoting towards sweet, cold, milky things that approximate whiteness in really obvious ways. And then like tepid room temperature, sour things as being, uh, mapped onto Hawaiian bodies and then the subsequent eradication of those foods and those tastes that have actually left this really indelible mark on how people start to envision like what good taste is in Hawaii.
Speaker 2 00:19:45 Wow. Yeah. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 00:19:48 Yeah. It's making, yeah, so much like I'm thinking about, you know, you talk a little bit about the connection to sugar in your book, and so I'm thinking about that and it's making me also think about, you know, how some of your research or how your research connects to other sort of like environmental concerns in Hawaii. And then another thing I'm thinking about, so this is like a two part, but you know, they're totally under unrelated, is how your research has affected your own relationship to cold and to temperature. And cuz I, it, it's already, you know, like I think even like from the time I met you and you told me a little bit about your own research, it like has stuck with me. Like, I think about air conditioning and I think about, you know, all these things like, you know, temperature, all these things I had never thought about before. Um, so yeah, take those in however, how whatever order you want to
Speaker 4 00:20:44 <laugh> Yeah. Well, I'll take, I'll take it in one order, which is that, like, I have always, ever since I was a little girl, like I've really hated cold things <laugh>. Like, I hate jumping into cold swimming pools, <laugh>, I hate ice in my, like anything cold. And I would just always be like, Ugh, this is the most like disagreeable since sensation. And as a kid, like, you know, I'd always be like standing on the side of the pool and everybody's like, oh, jump in. It's refreshing. It feels so good. I'm like, it feels terrible
Speaker 5 00:21:17 <laugh>,
Speaker 4 00:21:18 I don't want this. So, you know, we have all of these like little side genealogies of like where our research comes and I'm like, yeah, obviously I would grow up to write an entire book complaining about the gold right. To go so far as being like, actually it's colonialist.
Speaker 1 00:21:38 Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 00:21:48 Oh, I'm sorry, what were you asking me?
Speaker 1 00:21:51 <laugh>. Oh, I love that. That's perfect. Exactly. I think one of the other questions we had is how you see this, you know, impacting or connecting in some way. You know, your first chapter talks about Monica and so, and about, you know, this sort of idea that the summits of Mountain were completely are, are were and are completely, um, empty right void of native life and culture and all of this stuff. And so therefore they are perfect places to place huge 30 meter telescopes on, right? Um mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I'm curious how else, you know, you could talk a little bit more about that or how else you see this research sort of impacting with other environmental sort of issues in Hawaii.
Speaker 4 00:22:38 Um, I'll, uh, if it's okay, I wanna pivot that question just a little bit because, um, and I'll, and I'll talk a little bit about why I wanna pivot that question is because I think that there's so much to say about Moke Yeah. And other land struggles in Hawaii, and there are really important people that are saying those things. Yeah. Um, and I wanna, like, I, I wanted to be really careful when I was writing about places like Moke to not, um, like I think I really wanted to honor the work that other people were doing that I think are, um, kind of the most important voices to listen to when it comes to that. So I was really interested in writing about ice in the cold, and that's how I came to carve out a small space to talk about Monica. But I wanted it to be really clear that I didn't want to be an authority on those land struggles. Um, cause you know, I mean, it, there's, there's audacity to, you know, say something about Hawaii, but there's also making sure that you're paying, paying attention to like, you know, whose voices should be the most important voices where
Speaker 2 00:23:50 Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:23:51 But as a food person, I think that there's a lot that my book helps to say about the food system in Hawaii, and not just about taste, but um, kind of the infrastructures at play that do a lot of work in determining in food insecurity in Hawaii. So, you know, as a food person and anybody that pays attention to food in Hawaii, you know, has the statistic right off, you know, off the cuff about how much, um, what percentage of imported food Hawaii relies on to eat, right? It's something like 87% to 90% depending on who you talk to, which means there's this really outsized dependency on imported food. And it creates all kinds of problems, uh, for regular folks who are just trying to make it by in Hawaii. But one of the dominant narratives that I would hear a lot when folks brought up that statistic is that right, food in Hawaii costs so much money, it's so super expensive.
Speaker 4 00:24:54 And the reason why it's super expensive is because food travels from such a hard distance to get there. And when I started drilling down into the data about food cost in Hawaii relative to shipping, what I discovered, what's really surprising to me, which is that it's actually like shipping food is actually relatively cheap as, um, a mode of transportation, but what's super expensive is keeping things cold. And so the freezing and refrigeration infrastructure structures required to transport perishables to Hawaii is a huge part of that cost. And once that popped up for me, I was like, oh, this is why this story about ice becoming part of this commodity trade to Hawaii has direct bearing on what we do and don't think about in terms of Hawaii's contemporary food system, which is that, you know, Hawaii pays some of the highest costs for energy in the country, and that cost is directly related to the price of food. And that becomes a big part of where the food system hurts people the most that I feel like we just aren't talking about. So yeah, there, there's my soapbox because I'm like, temperature matters.
Speaker 2 00:26:20 Yeah, it does. Yeah. That's fascinating. Yeah. Um, we'd love to hear like, um, anything you care to share about, you know, what you learned from writing the book. Uh, maybe like the favorite thing that you learned from writing the book, or the most unexpected result of writing the book or, um, even kind of how it feels to see your book out in the world.
Speaker 4 00:26:46 Oh, it is, uh, you, I think you both have seen me go through a range of emotions <laugh> about the food, uh, you know, the, uh, a range of emotions about the book going out into the world, which is, you know, I think I'm just like a super anxious person, <laugh>. And so <laugh>, his publication was like, I'm like, oh, again, and I don't wanna make a whole podcast about me being terrified, <laugh> <laugh>. But it was really scary because, um, you know, it's like, it's like the time where you show your receipts
Speaker 1 00:27:22 Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4 00:27:22 <affirmative> and, um, you know, I, I wrote this book that is, uh, you know, it's, it's part of this intellectual genealogy. It builds off of, you know, work that you've done, Angela's work that you've done, my leg, you know, I re I said this the other day when you popped into my class, my life, but my, my book would not have existed had your book not come out first. And at the same time, I'm writing about something that, um, I feel like has not quite been covered. And, um, I got so accustomed to people being like, well, that's kind of weird, and like, <laugh>, I've never thought about that. And maybe I'm not particularly interested in thinking about that <laugh>. And so if you thumb through my book, you'll actually see that like it's, it looks like a regular sized book, but when you flip through it, um, like the chapter part of the book is actually pretty short, and the rest of it is footnotes. Like, it's just, it's like 50% footnotes, <laugh>, and I paid, I paid so much attention to like showing my receipts as a result, um, and really making sure that people could trace that story that I was telling so that I can be like, see, look here and look here and look here. Um, and, and I had to do that in order to tell a story about something that, um,
Speaker 4 00:28:53 Like is, has receded so far into the background hum of our lives that, um, this topic would end up being surprising even though, uh, it's so deeply embedded in our experiences of the world.
Speaker 1 00:29:07 Yeah. So you were on Jonathan VanNess podcast recently because you are a superstar celebrity. You were on Jonathan VanNess podcast called Getting Curious. Um, what was that experience like? Was it fun? Like, how was it talking about your book and this research, you know, outside of academia in this realm? Um,
Speaker 4 00:29:32 That was a real surprise, <laugh>. Um, you know, I think like the press, they put out all of these like feelers to different media outlets, and you could kind of tell when, uh, Jonathan Van Vanessa's team got back to the press and was like, oh, yeah, we'd like to interview her. Like the the press person at Duke was like, really <laugh>. Oh, okay. Um, <laugh>. And, um, there are a couple of things about that experience. First, Jonathan VanNess has an amazing team of people that they work with. Uh, their production team was just the most like thorough, warm and professional crew that I've ever encountered. Um, and they really made, uh, the entire experience feel really personal, even though I like got propped up in front of a, a screen with like somebody that's legitimately very famous <laugh>.
Speaker 5 00:30:37 Right. Um,
Speaker 4 00:30:39 Uh, and Jonathan VanNess was lovely, um, and disarming, and I feel like when the podcast came, came out, people were like, oh, I heard you drop a couple of F
Speaker 5 00:30:54 Bombs. <laugh>
Speaker 4 00:31:00 <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:31:01 Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:31:02 Throw, throw propriety out the window a little bit. Um, so it was a really interesting experience. It was really sweet. And, um, it felt nice to have a venue where I could actually like take off my proper academic hat for a minute and talk about my work in a way that felt authentic to how I actually like talk Right. To friends. Exactly. In real life. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but I, and I think I, I dropped in F bomber too in this conversation. Oh yeah. So I guess it's just like how I
Speaker 5 00:31:32 <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:31:32 How I roll. It's how your role I think. Yeah. Which
Speaker 4 00:31:34 Is not like how like my, uh, like how I envision myself in the world,
Speaker 1 00:31:40 Right? Like,
Speaker 4 00:31:40 It's like,
Speaker 1 00:31:41 Uh, you do. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:31:42 Just like a potty mouthing
Speaker 5 00:31:46 <laugh> <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:31:50 It seems entirely appropriate, especially when you're talking about ice being shipped around <laugh> too. Continents.
Speaker 4 00:31:58 I'll try to be judicious at least in my use of the language.
Speaker 5 00:32:04 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:32:07 I love that. Okay. So I think the last question we have for you, he, unless you know milee, if you think of any others. So, you know, I think when we first met or when I heard you were doing research about ICE in Hawaii, growing up in Hawaii, <laugh>, I think we can all attest, the first thing I thought of was crystal meth, which is ice. You know, for any of our listeners who don't know, ice is the sort of colloquial word or term or name used, um, to talk about crystal meth in Hawaii, which I think, you know, around the, you know, I mean I think it probably still is an issue, but it was a huge, huge issue, uh, when I was growing up in Hawaii in like the, you know, nineties and two thousands. Um, and you would see it everywhere, stop ice, you know, it was just, you know, all the sort of like government and police and every, all the sort of propaganda or, you know, all the things about it were, you know, used the term ice. Um, and so I'm curious just, you know, obviously this doesn't have to be like yeah, a very super well researched academic answer, but I'm curious about any of the sort of connections you find between ice as it, you know, as frozen water Yeah. And ice crystal meth and,
Speaker 4 00:33:23 You know. Yeah. So I have kind of a funny story about this <laugh>, which is that <laugh>, which is that when I was like, about six months into this project, it was like just around the time when I started to like tell, you know, randos or people I didn't already know <laugh>, um, that that's what I was working on. And I got invited up to this lunch because Lisa Kaha Hall was in town with Judy Roar up at Columbia, and I'm taking Audra Simpson's class. And so Audra, you know, she says, oh, we're hosting, you know, these Hawaii folks, so we'll ask Kiley to come up for this lunch. And we're like sitting in this like tiny little like diner booth or something and you know, Lisa Hall is sitting in front of me and she's like, oh, you know, sweet young graduate student, you know, what are you working on? And so I, you know, I got it, you know, kind of straightened myself up and I launch into like what I'm researching and they're listening to me go on for probably a good like 10 or 15 minutes politely until one of them is like, wait, ice crystal meth <laugh>, or ice frozen water? And I was like, frozen water. And they just like absolutely lost it laughing because they had just been sitting there for like 10 minutes trying to be like, what on earth does this have to do?
Speaker 4 00:35:00 Was that point where I was like, oh, I should clarify <laugh>, I should,
Speaker 4 00:35:08 I should find a way of like coming straight out the gate with like, people not mixing these things up, <laugh>. So I had to do some like careful wordsmithing at the beginning until <laugh>, until I got it. Um, but you know, it, I, so I don't really have an academic answer, but like over time I've, you know, occasionally like, thought about those analogs like ice crystal meth, like ice diamonds, right? Ice frozen water, um, ice that deports people, right? And so it has all of these different, you know, all of these different things like fall under the umbrella of that word,
Speaker 1 00:35:51 Right.
Speaker 4 00:35:52 That I think probably can be stitched together in a really compelling way.
Speaker 1 00:35:58 Absolutely. And they're all kind of like scary danger or like, you know, not, but like have like histories of violence and you know, things. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:36:07 So histories of regulation <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:36:09 Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:36:12 Yeah. I'm just super excited to host you in a few weeks. Um, we'll have Dr. Helay Hope Art, um, on our campus at University of Utah on, I believe it's March 2nd and third. And we'll try to put the notes, um, about the details of the event in our show notes. So yeah, we can't wait to have you here in person.
Speaker 1 00:36:34 Yeah. Thank you so much, Helay. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 4 00:36:38 Oh my gosh, Mahalo. No, I'm so excited to be with you two in real life and not just like hanging out on a screen.
Speaker 1 00:36:46 Right. <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:36:50 We hoped you enjoyed our conversation with Dr. Hobart. And if you wanna hear more about her book, please remember to join us on March 3rd, 10 to 12 at the University of Utah and the Carolyn Tanner Irish Humanities Building Room 1 43. The Room, also known as the Jewelbox Lunch will be served after See our social media or show notes for more details. Our theme song is Left Me Up by Hadum. Special thanks to Dr. Heatley Hope Art for joining us on this episode and visiting us in person next month. Thanks also to our sponsors, the Mellon Foundation, the University of Utah's School for Cultural and Social Transformation, and the University of Utah's College of Humanities. This has been relations of Salt and stars with host Miley Arvin and Angela L. Robinson follow the University of Utah Pacific Island Studies Program on Instagram at U of U Pi Studies. We also have a new Twitter account thanks to Pauline ua and you can find at U O U Pi studies.
